This transcript is AI-generated and [lightly] edited by a human.

Karina Inkster:

You're listening to the No Bullshit Vegan Podcast, episode 177. Sandra Nomoto is on the show to discuss four ways the animal agriculture industry has misled the public regarding the healthiness of meat, dairy, and eggs.

Hey, welcome to the show. I'm Karina, your go-to no BS vegan fitness and nutrition coach. In our coaching practice, my team and I create workouts for each of our clients and then we creep on them so we can see when they've completed them. And there's also an option for clients to add comments to their workout logs. And I wanted to share a comment. One of our kick-ass clients left on a recent workout log She wrote, “I'm getting more familiar with the exercises and I've been able to feel the muscles working. Also, I'm going to the gym on my own. Now my husband isn't joining, so it's become my own thing. I'm liking the process more now. I am thrilled considering I've never strength trained in my life. You both got me here. It is my new chapter and I'm learning to enjoy the process. Thanks again for the constant support.”

Now this makes Coach Zoe and me super happy. Of course, many of our clients are completely new to strengths training when they start working with us and seeing them gain confidence with their lifts. And being in a gym space is one of so many reasons we do what we do. Now, if you're looking to level up your own strength training or get into it for the first time, check out our coaching programs at karinainainkster.com/coaching, and make sure you submit an application for one of our available coaching spots, and that's at karinainkster.com/coaching.

Introducing today's guest, Sandra Nomoto. She's an award-winning ethical marketer for cruelty-free businesses. She also offers a suite of services for authors with Impact. She previously ran Conscious Public Relations Inc for a decade, which was the fourth public relations agency in Canada to earn B Corporation certification. Sandra is the author of two books, including Vegan Marketing Success Stories, the World's first vegan marketing book, honored by Vegan Choice Awards in 2023 on the side of her desk, she co-hosts Veg in Canada, Canada's only vegan networking group, blogs at sandranomoto.com and writes for several outlets. Sandra's favorite foods are Neapolitan style Margarita pizza with arugula and vegan mint chocolate chip ice cream. Here's our conversation.

Hey, Sandra, nice to see you and for our listeners, nice to hear you, I'm sure. Thanks for coming on the show.

Sandra Nomoto:

Thanks so much, Karina. A pleasure to be here.

Karina Inkster:

We just saw each other in person at the Planted Expo in Vancouver not that long ago, so kind of cool to have a follow-up convo.

Sandra Nomoto:

Yeah, yeah, it was so great to see you. If readers don't know, you were one of the contributors to my book in 2022, and so we had connected online, but to meet in person is just so cool. And you have the coolest show prop as well. The weight that anybody can lift makes you feel empowered.

Karina Inkster:

The 300 pounds that anyone can lift for folks who didn't see on social media, it was all over there. My sign maker's wife, which sounds like the title of some novel, came up with this genius idea to have fake weights at my booth at the Planet Expo. So they're made out of styrofoam, but they look legit. They look like 45-pound barbell plates, and so there's six of 'em on one bar. That was crazy. And little one and a half year olds were hoisting it over their heads and stuff. It was pretty hilarious. So I thought that was pretty fun. And you, Sandra, you were a speaker there, so congrats on that. That's pretty amazing.

Sandra Nomoto:

Thank you. And that all came from my book too. As a result of publishing this book. I appeared on a lot of vegan and non-vegan podcasts and media and such. And then I've known Steven, one of the partners at Planted Expo for quite some time, and he thought I had something interesting to say this year, so I made my way onto the stage. So yeah, it was really cool.

Karina Inkster:

Well, for our listeners, can you give us a little rundown of the book and also what you do in your business? So you're an ethical marketer, you work with authors too. I feel like that's kind of two directions of your business, but maybe you can let our listeners know.

Sandra Nomoto:

Yeah, absolutely. So as an ethical marketer, I help vegan companies with different aspects of marketing. So usually I help with written content publicity campaigns, and I do some consulting as well. And then authors are my other bucket of clients. They don't need to be vegan, although I have worked with a few vegan authors now, and that's fantastic. And with those folks, I can do almost anything to do with publishing a book except cover design. I am not a designer, and so I can ghostwrite a book. I've done that two times now. I can edit format your book, and then help on the marketing side as well. 

So yeah, those are my two types of clients. And then Vegan Marketing Success Stories was the book I published, as I said in Fall 2022, and it's the world's first vegan marketing book. When I found out nobody had done this, I thought, okay, well, I guess I've got to be the one to do it. When you see a gap in the market, you just fill it. And so it's kind of like any other marketing book that you might pick up. The difference is all of the case studies and stories that came from folks such as yourself are all vegan companies. And so whether you're a vegan and you're running a company or doing marketing for a company or you're a non-vegan and you just kind of want to learn what other vegan companies are doing to grow their businesses, that's who the book is for.

Karina Inkster:

Amazing. Well, congrats on that. I do have it on my shelf, of course. It's an excellent resource and it's kind of interesting. I mean, not everyone would actually go and do the thing, right? Oh, this doesn't exist. End of story is usually how it works for people. But you took the initiative, you're like, well, it doesn't exist, and I'm going to be the one to do it. So that's pretty awesome.

Sandra Nomoto:

Yep. That's how it happens.

Karina Inkster:

That's how Sandra operates. Very cool. Okay, well, let's jump into a topic that it's marketing-related, of course, and you're the expert here in marketing, and it's also vegan related and BS busting, which is what this whole show is about. So all of these different parts are getting integrated into our conversation today. And so you have four, I believe, ways that the animal agriculture industry, so meat, dairy, egg, have misled the public regarding how healthy these products are, meat, dairy, and eggs, of course. So this has to do with marketing. This has to do with misinformation. And you have four different points under this heading. So let's jump in

Sandra Nomoto:

And I'll pause with every point. I'm going to give examples, but before I start, I want to tell folks the information that I've gathered here is primarily from a report that came out in February, 2024 called Harvesting Denial, distractions and Deception. And it was put out by Freedom Food Alliance. And so if you want to go and dig into this a hundred plus page report, you can get it@freedomfoodalliance.org. And it's mainly focused on sustainability. However, they have some really great health related examples. And so I'm going to share some of those with you today. And so the first way that the industry has misled the public is through marketing. So unfortunately, we live in a world right now where if you have money, you will win. So whether it's an ad campaign, a publicity campaign, a digital campaign, this is how they've been able to get ahead.

So they started marketing dairy and animal protein in the early 20th century. So that's how it began. And so this looks like something like a group sends a news release to the media. They'll sensationalize around either how nutritious an animal product is, so something called health washing or they'll fear monger around a plant-based product. And I'll talk a bit more about that later. So that's how kind of it works. And then an example is US Dairy. So they created this digital campaign on TikTok called hashtag Undeniably Dairy. And then that's how these posts get kind of rippled out. And another thing that they've done is they've started these websites called Every woman's marathon.com. And then there's another one called Going to Need Milk.com

Karina Inkster:

Oh dear.

Sandra Nomoto:

So when I saw this marathon one, it really ticked me off because not that I have ever run a marathon or planned to, but you're running a marathon. The first thing you do when you cross that finish line, are you going to want to drink a glass milk? I don't think you do cows milk. So it's such bs. So that's the first tactic is just simply putting out some sort of advertising publicity or digital campaign.

Karina Inkster:

And so how can they do this though? I mean, they can sponsor scientific research, they can make stuff up, presumably, but aren't there rules around what kind of information you're allowed to feed? No pun intended, the public?

Sandra Nomoto:

Yeah, that's a great point. There are ad standard boards in, I know for sure in the US and Canada and the uk, other countries I am not so sure about. But yeah, anybody can go on and complain and people have, the thing is, I think they've been doing this for so long, maybe these ad standards weren't around in 1950s and sixties when they began. And so nobody knew that. Well, first of all, nobody knew the science, the real science behind products. And then secondly, was there even any regulatory body that they could complain to? And so I think that's an issue too. A lot of consumers, it's the last thing on their mind. First of all, is this even true? And second, I don't think it's true, or I know for a fact it's not, and therefore I'm going to go and complain to the ad standards board. It really takes that extra step to even do that.

Karina Inkster:

Well, and I think there's ways that they can get around the actual scientific evidence. They can say, Hey, isn't it a great idea to have a glass of cow's milk after you run a marathon? What they can't say is research has shown it's actually shitty for your health to consume dairy. So I'm sure they can get around that.

Sandra Nomoto:

So that's how they get around. Yeah, a hundred percent.

Karina Inkster:

Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, so what's next?

Sandra Nomoto:

So second way is the industry will put out a campaign to discredit a scientific study or a report that promotes a plant-based diet. So the most recent example that was given in the report was there was a report led by Harvard University in 2019, and this had 18 co-authors across 16 countries. So quite a significant report. And then what happened was the uc, Davis Clear Center, which is funded by the Livestock Association, they created this hashtag yes to meet campaign, my goodness, and released it the week before this report was supposed to go out. And so that kind of diminished the impact that this report probably would've had in the media because everyone had kind of just flooded the internet with hashtag yes to meet. 

So that's one example. Another is a campaign called Strong Minds, strong Bodies, which targeted over 3000 family or pediatric health professionals across 48 states in the US to promote beef.

And this was put out by the Beef Checkoff program. So this is similar to back in the day when we didn't have all the science around cigarettes and cigarette companies were actually approaching doctors and telling them smoking actually helps to relieve coughs, and the doctors would then pass that info on to their patients. And of course, now we laugh at that because we know all the science around the risk to the throat, but this is exactly what the meat companies are doing. They're targeting health professionals so that these doctors, again, don't know any better. And then they're passing off that info to their patients saying, oh yeah, beef is perfectly healthy.

Karina Inkster:

And again, this is very tied to the research so they know what's going on, they know the research that's being done, they're trying to be ahead of the research. Like you mentioned, this thing came out a week before this report was supposed to be published. So there is definite awareness of what is going on in the scientific community and the results that are coming out of that. For example, the World Health Organization classifying red meat as a group one carcinogen that probably didn't do very good things for the meat industry. And they probably had some kind of yes to meat campaign around that, I would think.

Sandra Nomoto:

Yeah, I don't know for sure, but I know that WHO, they tweeted about it, and then shortly after that tweet disappeared.

Karina Inkster:

Oh, okay. I didn't know that.

Sandra Nomoto:

And so there was some sort of either pressure from the industry and maybe WHO didn't have the resources to fight it, and that's why they just, alright, well, we're not going to make as big of a splash about it. But yeah, that's the one that drives me nuts too, is a lot of people just don't know. Processed meat is, yeah, group one carcinogen and then red meat is likely. So it's a group two A. And so yeah, you want to avoid cancer, like one in three people these days are getting cancer. Reducing these foods or eliminating them from your diet is probably a good thing, but unfortunately it just hasn't made it to the main street.

Karina Inkster:

Well, and to your point about those with money, that's probably how it works. Maybe that's why the tweet disappeared and they're like, well, we don't have the resources to fight this.

Sandra Nomoto:

A hundred percent.

Karina Inkster:

It probably could have something to do with that. That's my guess anyway.

Sandra Nomoto:

Yeah, educated guess that's exactly what I said too.

Karina Inkster:

Interesting. Okay, so what's the third point?

Sandra Nomoto:

Okay, so then we have manipulation or fear mongering about plant-based products. And so one example of this and has actually, there was a study that just came out recently this past week actually, and it touches on the Nova Food Classification system. I just learned about this too. So basically what the system does is it rates foods from the least to most processed. So group 1, 2, 3, or four, the idea is that the least processed food is the healthier it's. And so they have classified meat, fish and eggs in group one as not processed at all, which in itself is incorrect because maybe not so much for fish and eggs, but I know for a fact meat does require processing. And so if you're under the assumption, you're looking at this classification system and thinking, oh, okay, so least to most healthy to less healthy, you're going to think meat is a health product or meat, fish and eggs.

And really they're not. I mean, yes, they do contain some nutrients, but there's also some bad stuff in those things. And so yeah, I don't have the full notes on it, but this study just came out and the main claim they're making is that processed plant-based foods can lead to heart disease, and this classification system is the basis for that study. So that's already flawed. The other example I have is in 2020 during the Super Bowl, the Center for Consumer Freedom did this ad and it had these kids doing a spelling bee type of thing, and they were trying to show that the ingredients in plant-based meat were unpronounceable and therefore unhealthy. 

So that's a great example of fear mongering around any sort of processed plant-based products. And then what's great to see is that companies like Beyond Meat, I don't know exactly who else is doing this, but I know for a fact Beyond Meat has really tried to replace a lot of their ingredients to be cleaner, and they're actually trying to fight this very thing that they've been pointed at by the industry, and hopefully in future, they can't make those claims against plant-based products anymore.

Karina Inkster:

So this fear mongering about plant-based diets, this is huge. And this is something that I see a lot on social media. So I'm in various groups just for shits and giggles. Do you know Rate My Plate? There's like hundreds of thousands of members on this Rate MyPlate Facebook page. It's not vegan, very not vegan I should say, but I came across it. It's just like a fun group where you post food photos. Some of them are just for laughs, like, Hey, I'm having a peanut butter sandwich, I don't have anything in the pantry. And then others are full on chefs making five course meals or whatever. But the amount of fear mongering about plant-based foods, specifically faux meats in a group like that, that's not targeted toward people who are already in the plant-based world is insane. And the same stuff comes up over and over, exactly what you just said.

Oh, it's all those unpronounceable ingredients, so it must be unhealthy, which is a complete fallacy. And oh, look at how processed this food is. It must be unhealthy, which is also a fallacy. There's actually some interesting research that shows some, so-called processed foods including whole wheat bread. And by the way, there's no standard definition of what processed food even is, but there's a lot of research that shows it actually has health benefits, not just neutral, it won't be bad for you, but there are certain foods including breakfast cereals and whole grain products that are good for us. They have health benefits. So I feel like there's a lot of fear-mongering going on in general from companies like you're talking about. But also on a smaller scale and maybe even a worse scale because it's easily accessible. Facebook, Instagram, TikTok threads, it's absolutely everywhere, and I don't really know what to do about it.

I do think as an aside that people can FL veganism with health a lot. 

And so these people who are saying, oh, it's so processed, or, oh, you can't pronounce the ingredients, they're just talking about health. Now, I'm not vegan for health reasons, and we could have a whole conversation on this. Even as a fitness coach, I'm not vegan for health reasons, and I feel like this is kind of a moot point, but also it's bullshit and not true. So I don't really know what to do about this. Can we approach this on a smaller scale as people on social media?

Sandra Nomoto:

Yeah, I think we can. And I think those of us who do identify as vegan, if we are active on places like social media, we've been trying to do that. And I have always said, if you don't want to eat the processed, the Beyond Burger Patty, make your own. You can absolutely make your own and make it out of beans or whatever. You absolutely don't need processed products, but if you do choose so, so long as you're not eating them every meal of every day, they're not, yeah, they're not as unhealthy as you might think. They're, and people also forget meat, dairy, to an extent. Seafood, these are processed as well. They require preservatives to be brought from wherever they were slaughtered and butchered to the grocery store. And again, people just don't know that we haven't been taught.

Karina Inkster:

Well, and a lot of that is marketing and what we hear from the old school got milk campaigns. I remember those from when I was in elementary school. Celebrity endorsements, that stuff is still rampant.

Sandra Nomoto:

Whoever has the money wins.

Karina Inkster:

Basically. Okay, so fear mongering about plant-based dyes, I mean, dude, we can do a whole episode just on that point.

Sandra Nomoto:

Totally.

Karina Inkster:

Yeah, there's a lot there. But let's move on. So what's the next point? 

Sandra Nomoto:

The last way is through online, and I didn't know what this meant, but basically Astroturfing is when a corporation or some sort of funding organization will create a fake grassroots organization. So I've got a couple examples here. The Master of Beef Advocacy, so this is a free online course, not a real master's degree folks sponsored by the Beef Checkoff Program. And what's interesting is the Beef Checkoff Program actually receives tax dollars from farmers and ranchers. So this is people giving their hard earned tax dollars to this organization, and they've just gone and created this Master of Beef advocacy online course. The program also funded the beef for dinner ads, if you're familiar with those from a little bit a while ago. So that's one example. Another is, again, the Center for Consumer Freedom. This was created in 1995 initially to combat smoking bans. So because what we know about smoking now and the cigarette companies have not been as big as they were, the Center for Consumer Freedom has now shifted its focus to big meat and fast food.

And when you go to their website at the top of the website, you'll see Clean Food Facts. So they're operating as if, yeah, we want to give you this healthy information, but really it's another one of these AstroTurf organizations. And then the other example I have is the International Life Science Institute sounds really legit, but this has ties to tobacco, soft drinks, pharmaceutical industries, and then now it's also shifting its focus to food and nutrition. You might also see these from university and research centers. So as I mentioned earlier, uc, Davis has one called the Clear Center. And then scientists are also willing to spread this type of misinformation if they get paid to do so. Yeah,

Karina Inkster:

This is a new concept to me. And the terminology is freaking perfect, fake grassroots organizations. Yes, we see that probably more than we think because they're trying to legitimize themselves and they're trying to pose as grassroots organizations and not corporate ones.

Sandra Nomoto:

And that's so tricky about it. It looks like a legit like, oh yeah, legit grassroots. But it's been funded by these folks who have millions of dollars at their disposal.

Karina Inkster:

Interesting. Yeah. Well, I feel like in this whole realm, you also mentioned funding and tax dollars. So it's not necessarily related just to this astroturfing, but it kind of reminds me that government funding and subsidies are huge in animal agriculture, and there's no big broccoli getting funded by taxpayers dollars, but there are dairy farmers of America and what have you. So I feel like maybe that's more of a systemic, not necessarily just corporate issue, but funding. And again, to the point of money, I feel like that's a big player here.

Sandra Nomoto:

And that's one point that I failed to make in my book is that don't feel bad that we plant-based industries. Seem like they're behind because we, animal Ag has had the heads, they've gotten the leg up from government subsidies, and these are our own tax dollars going towards dairy. Farmers of Canada ads for us in Canada get cracking. The other week, I just saw one called Canada Farmer or Canadian Farmer, again, very vague, what are you farming? But the actor had a chicken in his arms, and so obviously they're talking about animal farming. 

And so that's one point I really wanted to make sure I talked about in my talk at Planted Expo, because I didn't, in my book, it's the fact that these folks have millions of dollars to use. They're our own tax dollars. And so if you want to do something about it, you can contact your politicians and tell them you want to start shifting those subsidies away so that we don't have to see these ridiculous ads anymore. And if you're in Canada and wondering how you contact your politicians, I've got one for bc, I've got a federal one, and I've got one in Vancouver where I am. And so I'm happy to share those lists with you.

Karina Inkster:

That would be excellent. Yeah. Maybe that could be a good show notes resource for our listeners here in this area. 

Sandra Nomoto:

Yeah, absolutely. Happy to share.

Karina Inkster:

Good call. Our episodes are on Powell River Radio every Wednesday night. Shout out to Powell River, folks. Great. So yeah, if anyone's listening locally, that would be helpful for sure. Cool. So Kate, can you tell us a little bit more about your book? So who is the target audience and what are they going to get from it?

Sandra Nomoto:

Yeah, like I said, it may look like any other marketing book because I tried to really talk about all the possible tactics you could do in terms of a marketing strategy, but really all of the case studies and stories are focused on vegan companies. And so I had 47 contributors who either are vegan or run vegan companies. And then I pulled another few dozen examples that I found online and I got permission to use. 

So I feel like, yeah, it's a really robust book that gives you an idea of what vegan companies were doing, at least in 2021 and 2022, in terms of what they were doing to grow their companies. And a lot of hosts have asked me, what's the magic kind of potion? And there really is none. Everybody's strategy is slightly different. I will say the public relations and digital marketing chapters are the longest because that tells you a lot of these companies are using a combination of those types of tactics. But yeah, really everyone's strategy is a bit different, and you just have to figure out the cocktail that works for you in your company.

Karina Inkster:

Absolutely. I think folks often forget that everyone is winging it. Even the folks who are running eight figure businesses, they don't have a template. They're figuring it out as they go along. And so are we all. So there's this kind of, maybe it's a myth that there's a template you can follow or a step-by-step guide or what have you, but it's all individual. There's no such thing as one size fits all approach. So to your point, I think it's important to remember that A, everyone's winging it, and B, there are infinite ways of doing the same thing. Running a business, doing it ethically, finding customers, all of those things are, well, they're different for each person.

Sandra Nomoto:

Yeah, that's one of the major things that I've found as a result of gathering all of these stories is I asked folks, so tell me about your most successful marketing campaign, and what were the tactics that you used to achieve it? And a lot of folks came back and said, we don't really do this whole, this campaign type of marketing. Here's what works for us. And I tried to get a good range of solopreneurs all the way up to corporations. A lot of the corporations, even if they said they initially wanted to get involved, they were too busy. And so unfortunately, I couldn't figure out, what are you doing with your annual million dollar marketing budget? I would say probably the biggest budget people mentioned were between like 50 and a hundred thousand dollars maybe. But yeah, a lot of the folks came back and were like, yeah, we really don't do the campaign model. Here's what works for us. And we keep doing it, and we stopped doing what doesn't work well.

Karina Inkster:

That's how we do it in our business. We don't do campaigns. We just do ongoing putting out podcast episodes like this, for example, and things that make us first page in Google pretty much. So I can relate to that for sure. Yeah. Okay. So let's go back to the BS busting, the four points. Let's give our listeners a quick overview of those four points online, astroturfing, fear mongering. What are the other two

Sandra Nomoto:

Marketing campaigns in general? Putting money toward a campaign and then campaigns specifically to discredit a scientific study or report that may come out to promote a plant-based diet.

Karina Inkster:

Right. Okay. Awesome. Now, you mentioned that there are some main players in this realm to look out for in the kind of BS that they're saying. Can you speak to that?

Sandra Nomoto:

Yeah, I mean, I mentioned some of them already, but I would say anything that kind of has agriculture, meat, beef, cattlemen, poultry, dairy, sausage, all of that in the name, you want to take a really good look at that. So when it comes to dairy, it's US Dairy or Milk, PEP, which stands for Processor Education Program. And then you have National Pork Council, national Pork Board, real Pork Trust Consortium, the North American Meat Institute. And then on the Beef side, beef Checkoff Program, national Cattleman's Beef Association and Beef Promotion Operating Committee. Those are some of the ones that stood out from the report. I also noted that during the pandemic carnivore doctors or doctors that are promoting the carnivore diet really took off. I guess people were, they stopped eating meat for whatever reason, but then these doctors were like, no, you got to eat only animals. 

And so Anthony Chaffee, Paul Saladino, Lisa Weidman, these are some of these doctors that are dangerously using their medical profession to populate this type of diet. And then generally, all I want to say is, yeah, if you're skeptical about a website that's promoting the health aspect of animal products, look at the bottom of the website, look at the fine print of any ads that you see and any studies that seem sketchy, and you'll see who is funding it and who's behind it.

Karina Inkster:

A hundred percent. Yeah, I think we should be doing that with all of our research sources, right? Things that support plant-based diets, things that support supposedly eating animal products. But where do we go for credible information? So one of my main sources, as most folks on the podcast know is examine.com, but it's very specific to supplements and maybe a couple of nutrition fads like the keto diet or things that kind of come up in the media. They then look at the research that's been done. So other than that, where can we go?

Sandra Nomoto:

So I learned from the report that there are misinformation checker websites as well. I did not know this, and I'm very glad to know it now. So just a few examples are buzz sumo.com, so BU ZZ SUM o.com. Another is fact check.org. Yeah, freedom Food

Karina Inkster:

Alliance. I'm going on it right now.

Sandra Nomoto:

That's the company that put out the report, and they're actually creating a website called food facts.org, which will have agenda free nutritional information, so similar to the site that you mentioned. And then another really good nonprofit that I mentioned in my book is Switch for Good, so Switch number four. Good. Which is a nonprofit that has really been combating dairy: Healthy Kids, happy Planet. That's more of like a family focused site that I discovered in the report. And then there's a lot of really great doctor led organizations that are touting the plant-based diet. 

So nutrition facts.org, you probably know about Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, so PCRM. And then in the UK there's Plant-based health professionals, the Doctors Association, and then there's also the Physician's Association for Nutrition and the t Colin Campbell Center for Nutrition Studies. And then if you want a list of doctors who are actually plant-based or vegan, I have a list of about two dozen of those on my own website where I have my vegan resources. Yeah, I've just listed a whole bunch of vegan doctors there as well that you can follow individually.

Karina Inkster:

Hey, that's cool to have as a resource, especially as someone who's not specifically in the health world, but it is something that a lot of people mention their medical team isn't vegan, they don't understand the plant-based diet, or they keep misrepresenting it in various ways. So that's a really good resource. And of course, we're going to link to your website in our show notes, so we'll have that there. Folks can go and check it out. So you have your book, which I presume is available on your website. You also have a newsletter. Can you tell us about that?

Sandra Nomoto:

Yeah, every month, so first Tuesday of the month, I share marketing wins of vegan companies around the world, and I'll share maybe a few other industry links to news that's going on in the vegan world. And yeah, once folks sign up, you can get chapter one of my book, and I also share a lot of low cost resources on my to new subscribers as well. So yeah, you can just sign up on my website with my name or DM me on social media, and I'm happy to send you the link.

Karina Inkster:

Amazing. Very cool. Well, it was great to speak with you, Sandra. Anything you want to leave our listeners with? Anything we've missed?

Sandra Nomoto:

No, we covered so much in this, and I'm so, yeah, just glad you gave me the opportunity to speak here. And yeah, just be an eagle eye for any sort of health type of information you see, whether it's focused on animals, focused on plant-based, really, yeah, use your eagle eye, look at the fine print. Look at who's funding, who's funding what, and yeah, just use your critical thinking skills.

Karina Inkster:

Love that. That's why we're here. That's what we're all about. Thanks so much for speaking with me, Sandra. So great.

Sandra Nomoto:

You're welcome. Thanks Karina.

Karina Inkster:

Sandra, thanks again for joining me on the show. Access our show notes at nobullshitvegan.com/177 to connect with Sandra and check out the report referenced in our discussion. Thanks for tuning in.