This transcript is AI-generated and [lightly] edited by a human.

Karina Inkster:

You're listening to the No-Bullsh!t Vegan podcast, episode 170. Dr. Monica Bathia, co-founder and co-CEO of EQUII is on the show to talk about vegan protein, including how we often underestimate our protein needs, how her challenges during pregnancy led to the creation of her company and more.

Karina Inkster:

Hey, welcome to the show. I'm Karina your go-to no BS vegan fitness and nutrition coach. Thanks so much for tuning in today. We are going to be talking all about plant-based protein in today's episode. So if you haven't yet checked it out, make sure you go to karinainkster.com/proteincalculator to plug in your basic data and find out how many grams of protein you need to consume every day. It's a completely free tool. Takes about 30 seconds to use and you can try it out at karinainkster.com/proteincalculator.

My guest today is Dr. Monica Bathia, co-founder and co-CEO of EQUII. She's a biotech manufacturing, ingredient, and fermentation expert with an impressive background in building sustainable products including biofuels and oils for foods and cosmetics. She has a PhD in biochemistry from the University of South Carolina. Her journey with EQUII began in her kitchen where her vegetarian lifestyle inspired her to explore ways to integrate nutritious food seamlessly into daily life. This initial spark of ingenuity eventually led her to establish EQUII and develop its revolutionary fermentation technology. Together with co-founders, Dr. Baljit Ghotra and Chef Sebastien Canonne. Monica's favorite vegan meals are EQUII avocado toast with cilantro, and peanut tofu with hot sauce and rice. Here's our conversation.

Hi Monica. Thank you so much for joining me on the show today. Great to have you here.

Monica Bhatia:

Hi Karina, nice to meet you and yeah, very excited about doing this with you.

Karina Inkster:

I have many questions, so we better dive right in. So I know that you're vegetarian, right? Can you tell me a little bit about that plant-based connection? I mean, most folks who come on this show are vegan. Some are what they call mostly plant-based, some are vegetarian. There's some plant-based connection. So can you tell me a little bit about your connection with that and your history?

Monica Bhatia:

Yeah. I was born in India and I came from a Hindu family, so we were raised what we call vegetarian. That means that we didn't have meat and actually to be honest, growing up I didn't even like to eat eggs also. So just dairy was my only source of anything coming from animals. I moved to United States at the age of 22 and it was a little bit challenging in the beginning. So as I kind of went through my adult life, I did pick up eating eggs as a source of protein, but even to this day, no meat for me, no fish, eggs and dairy are the only non-plant-based options that I eat.

Karina Inkster:

Got it. What, if anything, would bring you over into the fully plant-based world?

Monica Bhatia:

Honestly, that's a great question, and I think my main reason of eating eggs was to get protein. Eggs are a reliable source of protein, if you will. You can eat in breakfast and just get through and add some eggs for protein there. That was my main reason, and if I think I can get protein from other sources, I would definitely switch over. Now, dairy is another thing, but I have different reasons. So dairy, honestly, I think as part of drinking coffee or tea and putting some milk in it, I have never been able to completely wean off of dairy. And so maybe the answer there is if I can find a good plant-based milk, I've tried a few, nothing quite comes close, but I don't think it's that far in the future that there is a good option. So that's my hook to dairy. The other thing I want to say is yogurt. So yogurt, I really do like yogurt also, not just for taste, but also the fact that it's fermented and the fact that it gives protein. So it's kind of doing two things in one. So I would love to also find a plant-based yogurt that does provide me that complete protein angle and the fermentation benefits as well.

Karina Inkster:

Interesting. Okay. Right. Well, I just did a real quick little Google here, and an egg has six grams of protein, which is okay, but it has 78 calories, so it's about 30% protein by calorie. Right, which is decent. That's decent. Seitan though, if you make your own especially, is 75% protein by calorie. So there's definitely options that are concentrated. I mean, look, everything has protein in it. And this is something we can talk about too, some of the myth busting around, oh, you're not going to get enough protein if you're plant-based, but something like tofu scramble or seitan with some veggies just to make sure you have your variety there, that would've more protein by quite a bit. So there's definitely options, but I have to realize, of course there's cultural background, there's just plain old habit and what we're used to. There's a lot of different factors at play.

I would say this one thing: if some of your vegetarianism centers around ethics or the environment, and for some people it's literally just culture, but if there's some piece of it that is ethical consideration and/or environmental consideration, then I think it makes sense to go fully plant-based at some point. I mean, I'm not saying tomorrow, not wanting to put you on the spot at this second, but just trying to bust the idea that eggs are the best source of protein for breakfast. Tons of other options, probably including your product actually, which we're also going to talk about.

Monica Bhatia:

I'm really glad that you're putting me on spot.

Karina Inkster:

Oh, good. Okay. Well, I do want to talk about your company and your products because they are also focused around complete proteins, and that's kind of your thing with creating these bread products. But I want to get a little bit of background on you and the company first, and then I've got some questions about the products, and I looked at the website and that kind of thing. So how did EQUII come to be? I mean, this is your main project. How did it come to be? What's the background story?

Monica Bhatia:

I think so the two topics and questions you asked Karina, they're actually interconnected and I am trying to say first and foremost that I'm really glad that you are putting me on the spot because yes, ethically I do think a vegan lifestyle is the best, and I do want actually to get there as well. But one thing I want to say is where ethics sometimes clash with health and diet is probably, if there was anything in between those two, I think protein will be a key one. And I want to explain that a little bit more. So you said tofu and you said seitan and I actually love tofu and my kids love tofu and we cook a lot of it. In fact, sometimes I think I have to count like, okay, I just ate it yesterday. So my point is we do eat a lot of it because it is one of the more most reliable, I would say, protein for vegans.

It's a complete protein. I really love it, cook it up so many ways, but I think, so I actually beyond tofu, it gets a little bit hard. And the reason is that when you think of protein scientifically, our bodies need us to eat what is called complete protein. And I have been actually reminded of that fact, not just because I'm a scientist and a biochemist, and this is something I just knew, but it's also in our daily lifestyle. Proteins serve a purpose in terms of helping our body. And if we are relying on less complete sources of protein or more of them, then eventually I think it do add up a little bit. And so to your point why we started equ, so the reason of starting EQU is to bring more options on the table for complete protein that is plant-based. And so for example, as a consumer, I eat one egg a day or something like that and can I get rid of it?

Yes, absolutely. Is it the best source of protein? Maybe not, right? But the point is it's an option out there that the body is taking well too. And so Seitan sometimes may or may not be that option. It's made heavily of gluten. I think gluten is an incomplete protein. And I just want to point out that a little bit of myth-busting has to happen in the plant-based world of plant-based world of proteins. And with your permission, I would like to do that a little bit. So Seitan, for example, does have 35% protein is a significant source of protein on the gram, but it's not a significant source of protein when you multiply that with the quality of the protein that sits inside it. So wheat protein by definition is probably a third of the quality of let's say a tofu or an egg or a milk or a meat.

And so you have to look at it that way. And that's why when I design, let's say my diet or my plate on a daily basis and capturing the amount of protein that I want to get in, I need to get in, I want to make sure that most of it is coming from complete protein. That is where I think there's a little bit of a gap. And that's the reason Equally as we are doing it, it's trying to bring that protein on the plate in a very convenient way. So with our product, we have bread product and we have pasta product. Pasta is awaiting launch yet, but bread, let's say 10 grams of protein in a slice. And now if you eat one slice or two slice with let's say a tofu scramble or with some other form of protein, you can get to somewhere between 15 to 20 to 25 grams of protein depending on your needs. So I just wanted to take this opportunity to clarify not all proteins are created equal and one must pay attention to that as well before using them or relying heavily on them as sources of protein.

Karina Inkster:

Right. Well, I appreciate that, Monica. I agree actually that there's a lot of myth-busting that needs to happen in the vegan world, but my understanding around the protein is, I mean, of course, look, we have different qualities of protein and as you mentioned, the Seitan is not quite in the same league as something like a soy based protein for example, and that's fine, but my understanding is that not every single protein source we eat has to be complete. This idea came in 1971 from Lappe book, I think it was Diet for a Small Planet, which she then retracted 10 years later saying, no, actually this idea is not correct. So I mean, I understand that we should be focusing on good quality protein and getting all the amino acids we need, but my understanding is it doesn't have to be all at once. I mean, I could have seitan for breakfast and nutritional yeast for lunch and tofu for dinner and have a complete protein for the day. So I think sometimes we're relying a little bit too much on each food by itself versus the context, what does the rest of the day look like? Am I getting my amino acids across 24 hours? Right? Yeah, I mean I think of course complete protein is a legit scientific concept, but does it actually matter if the rest of the diet is varied?

Monica Bhatia:

There is no set answer here. It could be yes or no, depending on how careful one is on maybe to some extent a little bit anal if you will, in terms of making sure every day to get that kind of nutrition in. And again, I also want to say I'm sharing my perspective and my experience and why I felt so strongly the need to create a complete source of plant-based protein for people. And here is the 2 cents. There are two stories I want to share here, Karina in the hope that it helps elucidate. So one is I come from India and I think if I'm not wrong, India has to be one of the largest population group or country to eat lentils and beans in their diet. And so generally speaking, also, we do have this habit of combining, let's say most of the lentils with rice and that kind of makes up the complete protein.

There are two problems. There is, as I notice in my own life, is the total calorie count is actually pretty high when you combine them to get enough protein through them, and you can do that, but beans for example have three times more carbs sometimes, and again, the way you cook, I would also admit firsthand as a cook myself is beans are not the easiest to cook. So again, the point is accessibility to the source of protein can vary widely from individual to individual. And so sometimes it could be a significant barrier to entry in terms of food groups that we can count reliably as a source of protein. Secondly, this knowledge of combining them with the right food groups and in the right amounts may or may not be right for a lifestyle. So if I am heavy hitting in the gym or whatever, I'm physically very, very active.

It's probably fine for me to eat the rice and beans in that amount and quantities, but it may or may not always work. The second thing I just want to say also is that there is a lot of evidence that beans are kind of a known culprit when it comes to causing gastric issues or digestibility issues, and it's not something that we can just dismiss. So for various reasons that the dependence and inclusion of beans and lentils as a source of protein could vary a lot. Like the plus and minus there could be very significant. For example, if the digestibility towards certain beans is low, then you start to exclude them. And then other beans, are we responsibly admitting other beans or not, or if we are just as chewing beans as a group. So there is a lot to unpack there. Theoretically, yes, the answer is yes, you can do that, but maybe practically it may or may not happen for all of us in the same way or at all times.

The other thing I just quickly want to mention also is I have 13-year-old twin girls. So 13 years ago when I was pregnant with them, I used to use beans and lentils as my major source of protein and would count every single gram and be very, very diligent. And I can tell you honestly that I wasn't able to get all the protein in my diet that I wanted despite being very careful, very methodical about the whole approach because either I am getting the protein, but getting them at a cost of too much carbs that would cause me to get gestational diabetes or things like that, or I don't get enough in order to avoid carbs. So again, it's situational, but I just wanted to use that as an example to show that while yes, they can be sourced, beans and lentils can be sourced of protein, I think that if there is anything we can do in this world of plant-based to make it easier for consumer, that that would really help actually the cause of this whole movement, this whole effort and intention to go completely plant-based.

Karina Inkster:

Right. I can understand that there's different reasoning of course, and I'm sure some of it factored into creating EQUII, which we can talk about in a little more depth too. But I think that the concept of a complete protein, of course, is legitimate. Yeah, there's a complete protein and maybe the incomplete protein is actually the myth because all proteins have all amino acids is basically just the amounts of which they have. And when a certain protein is low in one amino acid, we start calling it incomplete even though it technically has some of that in there. So okay, let's say that a complete protein is a legitimate concept, which I agree with. I think my issue is basically just I don't know if we need products that use that as a marketing term because to me it's furthering the myth. To me, it's furthering this idea that all of our protein sources should be complete when actually what we should be focusing on as a variety in our diet. However, I do understand what you said about accessibility or cooking styles, or maybe some people have foods that they can't digest or they have allergies. I've got a lot of food allergies too, so there's a lot of foods that are off the table for me. So I'm sure that there are actually a lot of cases where this is not just appropriate but really needed for folks. So yeah, I mean I guess I can see both sides is basically what I'm saying.

Monica Bhatia:

I feel like that's part of the canvas of food and our plates is that if our plate is the same thing every day, I don't think that we stick to it. I think it gets boring very soon. Just this color that the optionality provides through various food items is the part of joy. You go to stores like Trader Joe's or Costco and there's this established the joy of discovery that they leverage. So I mean, it's a genuine thing that we want to, and again, that's also why I try to create EQUII because the idea is not to become the only source of complete plant-based protein on the plate. The idea is to be one of them to be one of the protein that gives consumer that option. So just first of all, I wanted to lay it out is my goal with IQ is to give consumer one more option that perhaps just the way that we've designed it could make it even easier than the existing options.

When we're talking about lentils, one thing that came to my mind is nuts. I eat a lot of nuts to be honest. I love them as a snack. I love the taste, but you can eat a lot, meaning a lot in quantity. I eat them every day, but a little bit and I know what's good for me, but over bingeing on nuts is also not good. Why? Because of the fat and all of that. So everything in moderation is ultimately the key to a good diet. And so therefore, if we're eating in moderation, the more variety the bring, the more successful our diets and our plates are. Now, the one thing that I always found a problem in messaging in marketing, it's not actually the fact that a protein is incomplete and you say, okay, use that as a source of protein. That's not the problem.

I think the problem is to market something as equivalent to when it's not. So for example, there are a lot of companies that are marketing a protein in their product equivalent to something else, and that's where they're skipping a step. They're not taking in the quality factor. Then it becomes a misleading truth because the consumer is trusting the brands to bring them the truth. And so the only problem I have is say as it is, say I have a product, it could be a source, great source of protein. It's delightful, it's tasty, it has this amount of protein, it's made from this, but don't say it helps do this. So false claims are my problem. False equivalency is my problem. And so as a brand, we have really, really worked hard to create a messaging that first and foremost, it's true. If you look at the nutrition label of our protein has a score of whatever, 0.9 something, and it's considered complete, but we know as we bake, there is a little bit of degradation, whatever. So at the end of the day, we want to apply that right factor to multiply with their grams of protein to tell you that our 10 gram bread is 18% daily value. It's not 20% whatever it is, 18, 20, 10, whatever it is. My point is say as it is, don't mislead the consumer because I think that that's where there is a lack of trust, a lack of honesty that consumer will sense tomorrow or today whenever, and that sort of goes on and tarnishes the whole industry.

Karina Inkster:

I would agree with that for sure. Agree. So I'm curious, what makes EQUII a complete protein? Is it the different blends of grains? Looking at the ingredient list, there's lots of good stuff in here like flax seeds and millet and black quinoa and red quinoa, wheat, gluten. So is it like that specific combination that then takes care of all the different amino acids?

Monica Bhatia:

Yeah, so if you read on the ingredient label, the first ingredient is obviously the wheat, but the second one is our yeast protein. So actually the yeast protein that we put in there is what makes the protein content in EQUII very high and so almost decouples it from the protein content that all this other good stuff could bring as well. So the protein we have is created using fermentation, and during the fermentation process the yeast grows, yeast eats the starch and the sugars that are present in the grains and then grows. And as it grows, it creates protein inside of it. And at the end of the day, we're able to take all that fermented mass, actually isolate the protein and then bring it into the baking mix to make it easier for the baker and the factory to make the bread. But that's one part.

But the other part I want to mention here is the kind of protein the yeast makes. So it's a composite of all the different proteins and that is called a proteome scientifically the mess of proteins, if you will, the whole mass of proteins that the cell makes is called a proteome. So before even we went into the fermentation process, we studied a lot of different types of yeast and bacteria and other organisms that are found generally in our food. This could be fermented foods like Tempe or cheese or all these other food environments around us. What we did is we studied the genomes of the DNA footprint or fingerprint of these organisms, and we used an algorithm that we had created to say, okay, which of these organisms have a complete protein? So really it's about creating a scientific method to identify the complete protein carrying organisms.

And so once we came to that point, I can tell you that it was a significant amount of time and effort and resource investment from us. We've studied more than 1300 different types of organisms, and out of that only 45 have the complete protein. And so it's not every day that you get a complete protein. So we took those 45 and then we parsed them into different types of organisms, and then we finally decided to work with yeast because it's something that is pretty unique as we have found through different trials and testing. So you can say it's a yeast that EQUII has discovered in a way that works well for pasta, for bread and for some other products in terms of taste and texture, but also is well qualified in terms of its protein quality to be complete. And so now we're using that to create the final bread product or the flour or what have you.

Karina Inkster:

Well, that's pretty different, I assume, from how other products are being produced. I mean, this is a whole other level of R & D and resources and finding potentially new food ingredients. I mean, this is a whole other world of nutrition basically. So I'm just looking at the nutrition facts here. We have one slice of EQU bread. I'm looking at the multigrain original, lots of really good ingredients, like I mentioned before, some of the seed militant, all this stuff, and it has 130 calories in one slice and 10 grams of protein, which is way more protein than the average slice of bread would have. Actually, I'm not sure what the average slice of bread would have three or something. What does a normal slice of whole grain bread have? Probably around that?

Monica Bhatia:

Yeah, I think it's between two to four. Usually Dave's Killer Bread has four or five.

Karina Inkster:

Okay. And it has dietary fiber one gram, but the plus fiber product has four grams, so that has a little bit more in there. So what is that? That's like a 30% protein by calorie basically, right? 10 grams of protein is 40 calories and you divide that into 130. If I'm doing my math, I think it's around 30%, so that's way higher than the average bread product. I assume that was part of the goal is not just to make it a complete protein, but to have it be a legitimate protein source. How a lot of people say, oh, nutritional yeast is a great protein source. Well, yeah, technically, but how much of it would you need to eat to get 10 grams of protein? You'd need to sit there and shovel a cup and a half of nutritional yeast into your face. So was that part of the deal is making it higher in protein overall and also make it a complete protein?

Monica Bhatia:

Let me tell you a story, Karina. So when I was starting EQUII, I said I started it in my kitchen trying to bake myself even though I'm not a great baker, then actually leverage help from some good baker friends to do it. Initially I was actually working with nutritional yeast because I thought that could be a great source of protein. It's a good type of protein, but that's the problem. As you just said it, you cannot densify using nutritional yeast into a product to get us not just good quality but also the right quantity. And that's kind of my point here is if we need to eat, again, there are different school of thoughts like FDA says 50 gram minimum, that's your daily value. But a lot of the people who are either mildly working out or in some kind of diet are always actually pushing the protein even higher, 8,200 grams, even more.

So many numbers out there. So the point I'm trying to make is I could not find a good way using nutritional yeast to get up the protein content to be significant where it could do 10, 20% of the daily value. And even if I stuffed in it, like the variation in taste and texture was quite significant to come out on the wrong side of things. So I knew that that was not the best way. So that kind of pushed me into thinking, what else can I apply technologically? So as you said, yes, what EQUII does is really pushing the envelope on utilizing technology to create something that's better, truly better because the taste is better. But the nutritionals, you just read it out. We designed the original, we call these the original SKU. The original SKU has 10 grams of protein. We designed the original SKU even it doesn't have the fiber, but has the 10 gram.

And the idea here was really push the envelope and show that this can be done. By doing the science right, by creating that technology, you can actually achieve 30% of your calories from protein in a bread format and has never been done before. Now we've used that ability to now create even I would say is to some extent better options. Our fiber bread has eight grams of protein, but three to four grams of fiber if you take the multi-grain variety gives you four grams of fiber. So truly embracing and demonstrating the concept of balanced nutrition each time. But I just wanted to show you, yes, to your point, it's a significant source of protein in grams as well as in quantity and percent daily value. And I don't think that without leveraging technology that this can be done. And that's actually what separates EQUII. I would say almost like from all these other brands who are trying to push the carbs low, which I understand, but at what cost?

It's coming at a cost of stuffing us with gluten, then I think that that's not the right messaging. So it's a little bit misleading to my earlier point. And yes, again, then they're pushing it with resistance star, but are we better off eating 80% to 90% of our daily value of fiber in one slice or one product like that? I think it's most likely going to upset our stomach. So therefore, I want to say we took a step back at Iwi and said, okay, what really can create a product that's not only good for us, but also adheres to the norms of how our body wants to receive its nutrients? So it's a very well-crafted product that we're really proud of and we hope that the consumer can love.

Karina Inkster:

First of all, I'm in Canada, so I don't know if it's available here. I haven't seen it, but one thing that I really like so far is a flatbread from a different company that has about the same calories, actually a little bit less. It's 120 in one flatbread, and it's kind of the same concept, but I'm not really sure how it would be different. It's probably the process that you use because that's proprietary, I assume, and the yeast and all these different strains that you looked at just based on nutritional info, it's 12 grams of protein for 120 calories with 10 grams of fiber, which is a bit higher, but I'm not sure if that's based on just additional pea protein that they add there or possibly vital wheat gluten or something like that. But just from a plain macros perspective, it looks pretty similar.

Monica Bhatia:

Yeah, no, I agree with you and I've seen, actually, I think I've seen that label before. I know it's a bread that's available in Canada, not yet here. And again, I think that's the beauty of this. We are in a field where consumer expects brands to bring them something of value. And so to your point, whatever that brand is trying to meet, what consumer's looking for. So let's say you Karina, you're a vegan or me, I'm a pretty much vegan. I can see us even using those two types of bread throughout the day. One for my lunch sandwich, maybe one for my breakfast sandwich. And so it's about creating that optionality we talked about. The other thing is taste, and I'm not saying EQUII has the best taste, but I just want to share here. Taste was a significant metric for us, and we also tried to the very best to make sure that when we densify the bread with that much protein, that at the end of the day it doesn't distort the taste.

And I think sometimes that's been a complaint about plant-based proteins is that especially when they come from lentils or beans, that they leave a bitter taste. And so I'm not sure exactly what the taste feedback is for the other bread, but I can tell you that for EQU bread taste has been actually our biggest ally. A lot of people say to us they love the taste. In fact, they can believe once they taste it, that it has that much protein and nutrition in it. So going back, I love the optionality here. The other thing is P protein is an up and coming type of protein. I believe that there are some reports again on the digestibility factor for P protein. So it's really, again, it goes back to the consumer what they like, but I believe that there is a place to have more of this healthy stuff incorporated multiple times throughout our day. And so just to be in this innovation space has been great overall.

Karina Inkster:

I like that. I think it probably speaks to market demand too, and also different countries and things that are available in Canada versus the states and et cetera. Yeah, I mean it must say something about what consumers in general are looking for. The one that I'm mentioning, I just looked it up, it's the flat out protein up brand, and they use chickpea flour or chickpea protein flour of some kind. And so for some folks, they might not like the taste of that. I haven't really noticed that it tastes any different than normal flatbread, but hey, to each their own. So I think I say this about the vegan world all the time, the fact that we have so much variety now, even in the vegan coaching world, you can have your vegan running coach or your vegan bikini coach or your vegan strength coach. That fact means that there's demand for products like this, and then there's further niches that you can go into. So who's your niche? Who's your target customer?

Monica Bhatia:

Yeah, I mean, to be honest, it's a question that we also tried really hard to unpack because Brett is such a democratic product, if you will. But over the course of launching the bread and sharing it, one thing we've seen a lot of love from is 35 plus all the way up to 60. So you can say middle age to some extent, if that could be defined as a niche. And I think it makes sense because as we get into older age, our bodies are telling us there are signs and you want to make sure that there is more quality in the diet through the diet. And people are just getting more and more aware each day through Instagram, through Reddit, you name it. So I want to say I've found a lot of love for the brand in that age group, and people are actually honestly also willing to spend more for the value.

So they're shopping for value, they're not shopping for a price point and to fix everything. And of course, it would be a perfect world where we don't have to pay anything for anything, but protein is something I want to say, has definitely a reputation of, okay, if I'm going to buy protein, I'm going to spend something because it's a high value item. So it's been actually really great to offer what we offer at EQUII and see people come back to us. We have seen quarters of 50% return customer rate for us. And so it's been really great to have that kind of retention, have that kind of love from the consumer base. And then as we've done tastings in stores, I do think the shopper profile there is again screaming the same thing, middle aged people who love to make the most of their lives by adding healthy nutrition, very, very conscious of their overall health profile and especially with an eye towards aging, has been a great early consumer set for us.

Karina Inkster:

Right. Yep, that makes sense. Well, you're not wrong about the price point either. I mean, this is in a lot of different products. It's not just your product, obviously, but we see a lot of premium pricing, especially when it comes to protein. So a protein bar versus a candy bar has a six time price difference, even though technically a lot of the times the ingredients are not that different. The protein one is just kind of like a glorified candy bar, and in a lot of ways, not all of them, but there is a premium, right? Yeah. I mean, I see on the website you can order on site. Is that right? I can see you can get two loaves or four or a variety pack. Is that an option for folks who don't live near a place that offers them?

Monica Bhatia:

Yeah, definitely. But I think the only caveat right now is it ships to mainland United States right now, but the goal is to bring it to grocery stores.

Also like Canada would be our next territory. We're definitely received a lot of, again, love from Canada through Instagram. People are asking us every day, when are you launching? And so I'm really hopeful that it'll happen very, very soon. But yeah, so I just want to say also, yes, we offered it through Shopify because the product is good and it's good for us, and we didn't want to wait to bring it out to the market. We wanted to leverage this online community and online shopping opportunity. It does add a little bit of price premium obviously, because of the shipping. And so we are just very transparent about it, like, okay, we'll cover your shipping, but here's the pricing. And so that's the relationship we've tried to build online. But as we come into the stores, the price will start to make much more sense. And then lastly, we talk about premium, but really I think at least I remind myself premium to what, right?

So premium, if you are premium to Wonder Bread, I think that that's a definite premium because the nutrition is just so much out of the ballpark also compared to that typical white bread that everybody's used to. And so I would never have any hesitation in claiming that premium. But I think the good thing with EQUII is that as it comes into the stores and you look around the other healthy breads that are on around and about, it would be very much within that price frame. And I think the consumer will love much better nutrition offering. So just to give you a quick sense here. So there are a few brands in us that are considered healthy and therefore somewhat premium. And so compared to most of them equally offers two times the protein just on the gram basis. And then we talked a lot about bioavailability and essential amino acid. In the beginning, it could be as much as five times to six times more bioavailable protein personalized. I think that is something I would love to spend on and get value add in my daily lives.

Karina Inkster:

Well, especially if it comes in relation to other, so-called premium breads like your sprouted bread or the 22 grain bread or the German one that weighs six pounds for one loaf. If they're kind of in that ballpark, I think people will, yeah, they'll be interested for sure. I mean, I'd love to try it out when it comes to Canada. I'd love to test it out. It looks really amazing. And there is one thing that I wanted to bring back around something that we kind of touched on a little bit before I let you go, which is the idea that most people underestimate their protein needs. And so you mentioned maybe it's like 50 grams a day, but if you're sedentary and it takes no consideration for active folks, older folks who need more protein because they're not absorbing it as much, pregnant folks, there's all these different scenarios in which we need more protein.

And I know in the vegan world, you probably hear this all the time, it's such a cliche. The protein, the protein, the protein, it's always about the protein, but it's legit. It doesn't even matter if you're vegetarian or vegan if you're in certain cohorts, like people who strength train or endurance athletes or pregnant people or older people or people who are currently in a calorie deficit for fat loss, they need more protein so they don't lose muscle. So can you talk to this concept of underestimating protein needs? Is that something that you have experienced yourself?

Monica Bhatia:

Yes. I want to tell you a story here and because only my family knows it, but maybe this is the podcast, I share this publicly for the first time. So before I started EQUII, I actually did an experiment on me. And the experiment was, so, okay, if I'm going to go into this world and try to offer people an option for protein, I really must know that having more protein is going to have a significant impact. Otherwise it just becomes marketing gimmick. Just have, there's so many, oh, adaptogens and this and that. Again, I'm not calling anything out, but I'm just saying there's just so much out there. So I want to tell you my story. So I've always been vegetarian and forever and ever, I used to start my day with a toast and with some kind of fat and some, I don't know really can call it protein, but just a bunch of different things in the morning.

And I was always hungry in two hours because most of the times my breakfast was very carb heavy. And then not only that, I would be very groggy until lunch and then I eat something more, then it's okay, and then I have another crash in the afternoon and so on and so forth. And that has lasted me until I would say the age of late thirties. And I really started to worry about it. And so reading about it, coming to this idea that protein might help, I actually did an experiment where I took high amounts of protein consistently for two months. That was two months. I took a hundred grams of protein. And in the experiment, I didn't really care in the sense where the source of protein came from. I just wanted to see what is the impact of having good protein. So I would supplement with a protein shake, and I usually just like the plant-based shakes more the soy based shakes is kind of my thing.

So those, and then some RX bar was the other thing that I would use. So different things here and there just to see what's the impact. And I can tell you I had never felt better. I had never felt more energetic, less groggy. I just completely wiped out my energy crashes through the day. And overall, actually I'm eating a lot more protein, but I'm actually eating less overall if that made sense, because the protein helped me really keep full longer. And that's where it felt like this is a worthwhile mission to have is really help people get to the protein in a plant-based way, sustainable way, kinder way, ethical way. And that's kind of my story to you is I have lived the aspect of being protein deficient both during my pregnancy and that led to a health scare. But later on, generally in life, kind of just feeling this low but chronic, if not acute symptoms of low protein. And that's why I am extremely bullish. I think people should pay attention to the protein number. Me too. Whether that number is 70 or a hundred or 200, it just has to happen equally would be one of the options. Go get yourself more protein, it'll help. So Karina, I just want to share that passion with you.

Karina Inkster:

Well, thank you for sharing. I appreciate that. I think it's really important that we have a connection to the project that you're doing and the why behind it. And so I appreciate you sharing that. Of course, it's a case study, but it's so obvious to you how it affected you. It's kind of like when I went vegan for a month as kind of test period, all these weird symptoms went away. I had allergies in the winter and all this stuff, skin problems. Anyways, it all went away. And then it all came back when I had some dairy chocolate by accident. Technically, that's a case study N = 1, but it shows me similar to your experience, well actually vegan is what I have to be and I'm not going back. So I think it's important to take into consideration. And the various points that you mentioned, like pregnancy energy levels, whether you're pregnant or not, those are all really important reasons to focus on protein.

And I think in the vegan world specifically, there's this idea, even in large scale organizations like Forks Over Knives for example. There's this concept that if you eat enough calories, you will automatically get enough protein. I don't agree with that because protein needs change so much based on individual factors and all sorts of different training contexts and whatnot. So I don't agree if you're getting enough calories, technically you could be sitting there eating kale all day. Are you going to get enough protein? No. And then the other piece is we often come across this number of 0.8 grams of protein per kilo of body weight per day is our general goal, which is very low. I mean, that is around 50 grams I think for some folks. But what people don't understand is that A, that's for sedentary people, people who don't exercise at all, and B, it's a minimum to prevent health issues. It's not like an RDA like zinc or B12 or iron where they've done research for. This is an ideal amount. It's actually a minimum for sedentary people. So folks who aren't sedentary, folks who have physique goals, folks who strength train, they're going to need way more protein than that. And I think a lot of us have this idea in our head that, well, as long as we eat enough calories, we're fine. But if you're not eating 4,000 calories a day, which most people aren't, then I think it becomes an issue. For sure.

Monica Bhatia:

Very, very well said, Karina. I can't thank you enough for highlighting. Again, I think there's so many examples in my life. I told you I grew a vegetarian. My parents eat so clean, they hardly ever go to a restaurant. They always cook at home. And that's the case with a lot of generation that's above, let's say our generation in India, and a lot of them have significant lifestyle diseases. It may not be obesity, but they have plenty of diabetes issues, plenty of heart issues. And I think if there was a case study that it is that abundance of carbs, even though there may be getting the calories, the abundance of carbs, the lack of good complete protein. They're eating the beans, they're eating the lentils more than Karina, you can imagine, right? It's a part of our life and diet in India. But I'm just sharing the experiences I have felt I've thought about forever.

Also, one time I studied this graph where it says, what's the consumption per capita of milk? And India is largely vegetarian as a country, and so the per capita consumption of milk in India is three times compared to the next country, which is one of these northern European countries. And it just is a mind boggling statistic to me because I think we are so habitual of dairy, probably because that's our only source or main source of essential amino acids. And I'm not saying I've done extensive research, but I think that those are the kind of things that made me really want to dig deep and do something and create options that would be less allergenic. That's one beauty of EQU protein is highly digestible from kids to old people. They have never complained about how the protein sit with them. And so again, we are really proud of creating something that sits well, helps people enjoy the food without too many problems. It's something that could be a little bit of passion project, but I really hope it finds its right place in the diet as one of the options that consumer can trust every day to be part of their nutrition story.

Karina Inkster:

I love that. I like the concept of having it be one of the options because then we're getting into the concept of variety variability, having all sorts of different foods in our diets, and that's really what it's all about Anyway, so I look forward to having EQUII options in Canada hopefully soon. I live in a tiny little town, but we have decent grocery store, so hopefully it'll be a grocery store chain that will carry it. But I'm looking forward to that. And we will link to you and the business in our show notes so our listeners can go and check things out. Was there anything that we have missed or anything you want to leave our listeners with as we're wrapping up?

Monica Bhatia:

I kind of actually just want to wrap up with what you said is why not go vegan? And personally, it's a mission for me as well, is to go a hundred percent vegan because as I've been studying and working in the world of sustainability, the problem of creating ethical sources as well as planet friendly sources is more than ever. And so hopefully we can all do a little bit of our parts in getting there. And I look forward to doing more of my part as well. And I wanted to say kudos to you for whatever reason, brought you to this veganism concept that you've been able to really stick to it. And I know sometimes it's not easy. So I wanted to say hats off to you for making that effort and doing your part.

Karina Inkster:

Well, thank you, Monica. I appreciate that. Honestly, I don't even think about it anymore at this point other than the odd internet troll, which are easy to ignore. But I also appreciate that is part of the process, that's part of the journey for you, and you know where to find me. If you need any support, any ideas, I'm happy to chat anytime. But it was great to have you on the show. I appreciate you speaking with me. Thank you so much, Monica.

Monica, thank you again for taking the time to speak with me. Access our show notes at nobullshitvegan.com/170. And don't forget to use our free protein calculator at karinainkster.com/proteincalculator to find out how much protein you really need each day. Any questions about your results, just get in touch with me through the context section of my website. Thanks so much for tuning in.